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Necron rule query

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Re: Necron rule query

Postby Shadowzilla » Tue May 12, 2015 11:33 am

So wait until an FAQ it is!! (Like we will ever get one in a timely manner....)
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Re: Necron rule query

Postby Unorthodoxy » Wed May 13, 2015 2:35 pm

DylanGould wrote:Grammar aside, which it has to be given the grammar inconsistency in GW writing, the base question is pulse or bubble. The text could legitimately be interpreted either way, so any declarations of meaning are simply personal interpretations.

But on the plus side, you have at least a 50% chance of guessing right. Things like this are why the ITS is a good thing, regardless of exactly *how* good folks regard it.


What?
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Re: Necron rule query

Postby DylanGould » Wed May 13, 2015 5:15 pm

Unorthodoxy wrote:What?

Okay, I'll parse it out.
DylanGould wrote:Grammar aside, which it has to be given the grammar inconsistency in GW writing
GW has not, in my more-than-two-decades of experience with them, used grammar in a technically effective manner, so one cannot really use grammar technicalities to prove a point.
DylanGould wrote: The text could legitimately be interpreted either way, so any declarations of meaning are simply personal interpretations.
The fact that there is support for both interpretations means that without a designer providing his intent, anybody's opinion is simply their personal option...nobody can declare that they know designer's intent.
DylanGould wrote:But on the plus side, you have at least a 50% chance of guessing right.
Only two possibilities. Guessing is 50-50 without a precedent to shift the odds, but nobody has listed a precedent.
DylanGould wrote: Things like this are why the ITS is a good thing, regardless of exactly *how* good folks regard it.
If the ITS gets *most* things to a more fun place, then it doesn't have to be perfect to be an improvement. Even in cases where they re-write rules, such as turning a 2+ save to a 4+ for the re-roll, if the result is a more fun game, then cool.
DylanGould wrote:, the base question is pulse or bubble.
I added text in red to clarify the effect. The two options are:

Pulse:
Adaptive Subroutines wrote:The Canoptek Spyder from this Formation, and all units from this Formation that were within 12" of the Canoptek Sypder from this Formation at the time the variant of Adaptive Subroutines is chosen, benefit from the effects of the chosen special rule until the start of the controlling player's next Movement phase."

Bubble (also called Aura):
Adaptive Subroutines wrote:Until the start of the controlling player's next Movement phase, the Canoptek Spyder from this Formation, and, while within 12" of the Canoptek Sypder, all other units from this Formation, benefit from the effects of the chosen special rule ."
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Re: Necron rule query

Postby Kingpin » Wed May 13, 2015 6:35 pm

I have always been on the side of a bubble and I play Necrons so its not like I just want the worse of the two. But like Dylan has said it really just needs an FAQ.
Matt should be around here somewhere...lurking...
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Re: Necron rule query

Postby Unorthodoxy » Wed May 13, 2015 8:31 pm

Thats pedantic Dylan. I don't understand the ITS comment.

Are you talking about the ITC?

That must be what you meant.

And I agreed upfront that it was a legitimately debatable thing. So I agree with you for the need for an FAQ because unlike so many of these things, I can definitely see both sides. I'll just go by whatever the TO decide, but in casual games, I am more inclined to see it as granting the special rule and we can roll off otherwise if we cant agree in the meantime.

As for the ITC, I dislike it for the same reason I disliked the INAT. The INAT Was not only used at major tournies, but FREQUENTLY found to be wrong as GW FAQ's came out. Yet hailed in the same ways as the ITC.

Not that this is a thread about that I suppose.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
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Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
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Re: Necron rule query

Postby Chexmix » Thu May 14, 2015 8:35 am

Unorthodoxy wrote:As for the ITC, I dislike it for the same reason I disliked the INAT. The INAT Was not only used at major tournies, but FREQUENTLY found to be wrong as GW FAQ's came out. Yet hailed in the same ways as the ITC.


Wasn't the INAT specifically designed to create a compromise between two opinions of a rule? If I recall correctly, INAT never strictly sided with one interpretation or the other. INAT always made some sort of "in-between" interpretation, which is why its rulings never coincided with GW's FAQs.

I like the idea of things like INAT and ITC... But nothing aside from clear and concise rules from GW (with no room for interpretation) will ever make all gamers happy when it comes to tournament play.
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Re: Necron rule query

Postby Unorthodoxy » Thu May 14, 2015 9:50 am

The INAT humbly claimed to be for the grey areas. That claim was followed by Yakface's House rules. Lol.

For those who don't know or remember, The INAT actually came to serve as a "Bible" for FAQ's, and it was the most extensive FAQ available. More importantly, DakkaDakka.com was behind it. They were (and are) the biggest website for the sport of 40K. INAT's notoriety and use grew exponentially because of this relationship and because Yakface actually WROTE some of the FAQ's GW used! You ghet a lot of street cred when that happens.

The problem was that it was frequently wrong as it eveloved.

Here's a fun example:

RB.11E.01 – Q: Can involuntary/random movement force models off of the table?
A: Unless specified in the rule itself, if random/involuntary movement would take any part of a model off the table, it stops moving at the edge of the table instead [clarification].

They also originally ruled that you could only hit an immobilized tank on a 6 (GW EVENTUALLY corrected this). Absurdities like this were reasons why I disliked it. Psyker ruliings of consequence they made later got invalidated also.

By the end of fifth Edition, Yakface decided to abandon the INAT project and it quietly died but I think it was going pretty much the whole time 5th Edition was if memory serves?

The INAT probably DID help in many ways, but it also sparked controversy almost its entire existence, and went through a ton of versions which was no fun to keep up with (sound familiar?).

It ended far better than where it started, I'll grant that. But that is more a result of GW getting off their ass and EVENTUALLY ruling on them and the meta evolving and people online simply ranting certain parts of it away.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
-Napoleon Bonaparte
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Re: Necron rule query

Postby Gonewild » Mon May 18, 2015 8:15 am

Since there is ambiguity to this rule in friendly games I would just default to the Necron player's preference.
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Re: Necron rule query

Postby Unorthodoxy » Mon May 18, 2015 1:03 pm

Every time you post my brain inserts a Skid Row video into its viewing screen. Lol.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
-Napoleon Bonaparte
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Re: Necron rule query

Postby Gonewild » Mon May 18, 2015 4:45 pm

Lol, which one? Thats probably my Wife's doing...
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