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Necron rule query

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Necron rule query

Postby Unorthodoxy » Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:24 am

Okay so We tried to figure this out yesterday.

The Necron rule is on page 108. Now this wasn't how i read it UNTIL tonight, But we were able to agree on half of it and then the other half seems iffy to me either way.

Now the important thing on this rule is the steps. AS I read it:

1. At the start of your Spyders movement phase choose a rule from among those allowed. Once chosen, go to step 2
2. Grant the rule effect to those within 12" and the benefit from it lasts UNTIL the end of the controlling players next Movement phase.

Now this can be read two ways, and both are restrictive in a way and beneficial in a way.

1. The Spyder cannot grant it unless the units are within 12" at the start of the movement phase. In this reading if the attendant units don't START within 12" at this point, they do not benefit until the next turn! This is the way I read it. In this reading, the Spyder is forced to keep moving and probably not shooting if it wants to keep granting stuff. Then the respective units are granted the Special Rule, and off they go until the end of the controlling players next movement phase. They have the rule at that point and can go off and do stuff, but wont get the power again unless the spyder ends up within 12" when its all said and done at start of next turn.

2. OR: The Spyder "emanates" the special rule continuously instead of granting it and them having it til the end of their next turn. In this reading, the Spyder can actually move up to BE within 12" after the movement phase has started, which substantially enhances the range and requires the Spyders to keep up less often. I dont like this reading because it effectively ignores the text that states that you gain the beneift until the beginning of your next turn. It doesnt say you have to speend that turn near the spyder.

It is REALLY easy to see both sides on this. Both of them cause problems in practice as I've seen in my test games so far.

Its wierd. I thought the intention was so clear until tonight!
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Re: Necron rule query

Postby DylanGould » Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:51 am

One will normally get more useful input by quoting the rule in question.
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Re: Necron rule query

Postby Kingpin » Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:48 am

DylanGould wrote:One will normally get more useful input by quoting the rule in question.


+1
Matt should be around here somewhere...lurking...
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Re: Necron rule query

Postby Shadowzilla » Fri May 01, 2015 11:47 am

Ill post it tonight when I have my codex infront of me. But its the canoptek harvest adaptive protocols rule.
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Re: Necron rule query

Postby Tntonic » Fri May 08, 2015 3:36 pm

I've been thinking about this one myself. It reads:

"Adaptive Subroutines: At the start of each of the controlling player's Movement phases, choose one of the following special rules: Fleet, Reanimation Protocols, Shred. The Canoptek Spyder from this Formation, and all units from this Formation within 12" of the Canoptek Sypder from this Formation, benefit from the effects of the chosen special rule until the start of the controlling player's next Movement phase."

The way I understand it is that before you move any units you select the special rule you want. Those units with 12" before any movements gain this special rule until your next movement phase, meaning they can move outside of 12" and still have this special rule for the turn. With the wraiths it forces the spyder to move more than shoot but giving wraiths reanimation protocols or giving scarabs shred is definitely worth it compared to mediocre shooting.
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Re: Necron rule query

Postby Unorthodoxy » Fri May 08, 2015 4:42 pm

Tntonic wrote:I've been thinking about this one myself. It reads:

"Adaptive Subroutines: At the start of each of the controlling player's Movement phases, choose one of the following special rules: Fleet, Reanimation Protocols, Shred. The Canoptek Spyder from this Formation, and all units from this Formation within 12" of the Canoptek Sypder from this Formation, benefit from the effects of the chosen special rule until the start of the controlling player's next Movement phase."

The way I understand it is that before you move any units you select the special rule you want. Those units with 12" before any movements gain this special rule until your next movement phase, meaning they can move outside of 12" and still have this special rule for the turn. With the wraiths it forces the spyder to move more than shoot but giving wraiths reanimation protocols or giving scarabs shred is definitely worth it compared to mediocre shooting.


Ditto. It GRANTS the rule at the start of the Movement phase, until the start of their next turn is how i also read it.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
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Re: Necron rule query

Postby osan22 » Sat May 09, 2015 3:31 am

i disagree, it explicitly says "the spider from this formation, and all units from this formation WITHIN 12" of the spider from the formation. meaning that it is an aura effect, the fact that it says "until the start of the controlling player's next movement phase is probably put in there due to the fact that you can change the rule given, and before you say "well why would they need that if it says at the start of the movement phase gain this?" i will point out that if not for the last bit some people would argue that you get to choose one at the start of the phase and then get another, in addition to the previous one.
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Re: Necron rule query

Postby Unorthodoxy » Sat May 09, 2015 9:39 am

osan22 wrote:i disagree, it explicitly says "the spider from this formation, and all units from this formation WITHIN 12" of the spider from the formation. meaning that it is an aura effect, the fact that it says "until the start of the controlling player's next movement phase is probably put in there due to the fact that you can change the rule given, and before you say "well why would they need that if it says at the start of the movement phase gain this?" i will point out that if not for the last bit some people would argue that you get to choose one at the start of the phase and then get another, in addition to the previous one.


At the start of the turn.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
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Re: Necron rule query

Postby Shadowzilla » Sat May 09, 2015 10:45 am

The Canoptek Spyder from this Formation, and all units from this Formation within 12" of the Canoptek Sypder from this Formation, benefit from the effects of the chosen special rule until the start of the controlling player's next Movement phase."

Commas generally separate a section in the sentence that is not needed to complete the sentence but adds additional information. Such as: "The statue of his mother by Joseph Smith, dated 1894, sold for over a million dollars."

We can remove the comma section and we still have a complete sentence. "The statue of his mother by Joseph Smith sold for over a million dollars."

We can then agree that the following states the same thing as the original Sentence, just broken up: "The statue of his mother by Joseph Smith sold for over a million dollars. The statue was dated to the year 1894"

So taking the rule sentence in question: "The Canoptek Spyder from this Formation, and all units from this Formation within 12" of the Canoptek Sypder from this Formation, benefit from the effects of the chosen special rule until the start of the controlling player's next Movement phase."

We can remove the comma'd section and add it as a separate sentence: "The Canoptek Spyder from this Formation benefits from the effects of the chosen special rule until the start of the controlling player's next Movement phase. All units from this Formation within 12" of the Canoptek Sypder from this Formation benefit from the effects of the chosen special rule." Following the above example the above should be the same as the original.

Its simply the spyder that benefits from the special rule until the start of the next movement phase all of the other units are restricted by a 12" bubble.

Of course my grammar and understanding of it could be completely wrong as I haven't taken an English course for a long time lol.
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Re: Necron rule query

Postby DylanGould » Tue May 12, 2015 7:42 am

Grammar aside, which it has to be given the grammar inconsistency in GW writing, the base question is pulse or bubble. The text could legitimately be interpreted either way, so any declarations of meaning are simply personal interpretations.

But on the plus side, you have at least a 50% chance of guessing right. Things like this are why the ITS is a good thing, regardless of exactly *how* good folks regard it.
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