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Armored units...superior?

Armored units...superior?

Postby Unorthodoxy » Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:44 pm

Mod edit: split this thread off from the Kirkland tournament thread (Dylan)

Ah...Armour again. hey: Just saying. Juuuuust saying.

Weeeeel, why dont we hold a tourney at the Game Matrix? Do you think you're up to organizing that? I can call Chris and get a date approved if you are.
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Re: Mid-war tourney 8 December 12 @ Panzer Depot (Kirkland)

Postby DylanGould » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:35 am

Unorthodoxy wrote:Ah...Armour again.

Well, if you call having five light tanks in a list Armor, then yes, I fielded Armor. Or are you counting dudes in Halftracks? That only counts as Armored for Italians.
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Re: Mid-war tourney 8 December 12 @ Panzer Depot (Kirkland)

Postby Unorthodoxy » Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:32 pm

DylanGould wrote:
Unorthodoxy wrote:Ah...Armour again.

Well, if you call having five light tanks in a list Armor, then yes, I fielded Armor. Or are you counting dudes in Halftracks? That only counts as Armored for Italians.


Armoured is armoured my friend. Deny it all you want. As soon as you're forced to make a Firepower test, the ability to hurt an army is shrply reduced. That firepower check is no joke. Its a big deal in Flames of War, a serious force multiplier. I remember when I first started playing and EVERYONE had the half track armies for germans (which is why I didn't, naturally).

It detracts nothing from your victory but it does once again point to the superiority of armoured forces. =).
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
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Re: Armored units...superior?

Postby DylanGould » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:02 pm

Well, let's see: I had 44 Infantry stands and 4 HMGs, with a total of 7 halftracks to go around...I only mobilized one of my platoons. My armor-free Infantry force has also chalked up about a 8:1 win record, which is a better record than my Mech or Armored forces. So, which forces are superior?
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Re: Armored units...superior?

Postby Unorthodoxy » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:52 pm

It is literaly impossible for them to be perfectly evenly matched. One is going to be better than the other because it is fundamentally. There are bad armoured lists in FOW and bad infantry lists but on balance The armour itself certainly gives a big advantage or America wouldn't have built 50,000 Shermans and Russia wouldn't have lost 85000 tanks.

I made a LONG list of 10 things that are especially good about Armour but then i realized that there was no point in posting it. You already know what I would tell you.

Chalk it up to an opinion that will not likely change on a forum. =) Fun to geek about (in the same way the Picard vs. Kirk thing rages on) but all that can be said, has been said.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
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Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
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Re: Armored units...superior?

Postby DylanGould » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:48 pm

One missing piece in the equation is the player; play style can make the difference, and can tip the balance to change an inherently weaker force into a winning one. Personally, I prefer to play Tank forces, but I have better results with Infantry forces.

Where the problem lies is in statements like "armor is superior". In absolute terms, it is true in many cases, but the points values and rules mean it becomes a relative thing, and can be situational. Mission, terrain, skill level, experience, list synergy...all of these matter. In an open field, your 500 points of armor will likely beat my 500 points of infantry...until your points are tied up in a single Elefant, and my points include 12 bazookas. In that case, the armor is (statistically) doomed. 10 Stuarts against Motor Rifles? Goodnight, ground pounders.

In summary, I believe that if "armored" was inherently superior, there would be evidence to support it, in the form of frequency of play, win records in competitve play, the common opinion of players that consistently perform well in competive environments, or other empirical data. That data indicates otherwise. You are, however, correct: individual opinions will vary, and evidence to support my point of view does not necessarily disprove yours.
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Re: Armored units...superior?

Postby Unorthodoxy » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:18 pm

Kirk for the win.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
-Napoleon Bonaparte
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Re: Armored units...superior?

Postby windspear » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:02 pm

Unorthodoxy wrote:Kirk for the win.



Kirk. How Picard can be mentioned in the same sentence I don't know.
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