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Late-War Volksgrenadier List - Opinions welcome.

Late-War Volksgrenadier List - Opinions welcome.

Postby Dan the German Guy » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:47 am

I have decided to start playing Volksgrenadiers because I like their background and flair. So far, I'm coming up with a mostly-infantry list. I'd welcome your opinions on playability, possible drawbacks and tactics.

Volksgrenadierkompanie HQ (Company Commander and 2iC are both Panzerfaust Assault Rifle teams)
+ 2 Panzerschreck teams
+ Sniper team

1. Sturm Platoon
(Command Panzerfaust Assault Rifle team, 4 x Panzerfaust Assault rifle team, 2 x Panzerfaust MG Team, Panzerschreck team)

2. Sturm Platoon
(as above)

Schützen Platoon (Command Panzerfaust Rifle / MG Team, 6 x Panzerfaust Rifle / MG team)

Mortar Platoon (Command SMG team, 6 x 8cm GW34 mortar, 3 observer teams)

Machine-Gun Platoon (Command SMG team, 4 x MG42 HMG team)

Scout Platoon (Command Panzerfaust SMG team, 4 X Rifle team)

Anti-Tank Gun Platoon
(3x PaK 40)
+ Kübelwagen / Trucks

Pioneer Platoon (Command Panzerfaust SMG team, 7 x Pioneer Panzerfaust Rifle team, 2 x flamethrower team)
+ Pioneer Supply Truck

Rocket Launcher Battery
(3x 30cm NW42)

The HQ Panzerschrecks and the HMGs will be combat attached to the Sturm and Schützen platoons.

With a 12th VGD list (CV), I get exactly 2,000 points worth of troops, all infantry but for the PaKs. With a 277th list (RT), I'd even have points to spare for another 3 NW42 plus a Panzer IV J or StuG G platoon to mechanize one or two of my Sturm platoons, but I tend to avoid fielding tanks, lest they get raped by broken US TDs. I know I'm probably short on AT firepower, but hoping the Panzerfausts will make up for that.
As said before, opinions are welcome.

Greetings,
Dan
Last edited by Dan the German Guy on Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Late-War Volksgrenadier List - Opinions welcome.

Postby Unorthodoxy » Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:56 pm

Im a little confused on the force makeup. Can you be clearer on whats what? Shats in the scout platoon etc...
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
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Re: Late-War Volksgrenadier List - Opinions welcome.

Postby Dan the German Guy » Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:40 pm

My mistake. I broke it down by teams now. Is that better?
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Re: Late-War Volksgrenadier List - Opinions welcome.

Postby DylanGould » Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:16 pm

Looks like a fun list; you are correct in the lack of ranged AT, but as Veterans, opponents will have to get within 16" when you are gone to ground, and you have Schrecks scattered around to help with that. And tank assaults are definitely not succeeding when all platoons but the support/arty have Fausts for defensive fire. Arty and enough assault rifles to generate hits on the move if you end up having to attack. Looks like fun.

Were you able to find players in your area, or are you just going to save it up for the next time you are in the US?
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Re: Late-War Volksgrenadier List - Opinions welcome.

Postby Unorthodoxy » Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:47 am

What he said, but dont put the fausts RIGHT in the front... I like to snipe platoon leaders and anti-tank dudes before I roll in. =)

You can blame Dylan for making me ponder that tactic.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
-Napoleon Bonaparte
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Re: Late-War Volksgrenadier List - Opinions welcome.

Postby Dan the German Guy » Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:02 am

That's one of the things about the VG list: practically every single infantry stand comes with Fausts. These things were issued en masse to Grenadier divisions in '44.
The Scout platoon is the sole exception to the rule.
Interesting thought on defensive fire against tanks with Fausts, I hadn't thought of it in that category.
Also, since all my infantry units (not mortar platoons, though) get to make an initial Recon move as per the Stosstaktik special rule, in conjunction with stormtrooper movement, I should be able to close the distance quickly and tighten the noose around my opponent if I should be required to mount an attack. The PaK 40s are towed in order to increase their area of influence and so they're able to keep up with the infantry. The mortars just will have some catching up to do.
I see the Pioneer platoon as something of my ace in the hole. On attack, they have Fausts (Tank Assault 6) and flamethrowers. On defense, those little groundhogs can dig in hard and hold along with my Schützen.

I was able to find a local store that hosts Flames games, but still have to check them out in person. Also, I have to get my force assembled and painted first, which will keep me busy for some time.
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Re: Late-War Volksgrenadier List - Opinions welcome.

Postby Unorthodoxy » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:20 am

Fausts cannot move and shoot so they do have a built in weakness. They are better as defensive fire most of the time unless you are willing to assault in which case you must preserve yourt unit strength to the very last moment and make sure you have artillery to pin with. Getting within 4" of something without it killing you is no small feat as my partner in crime in our last game found out!

Still I really like the list idea. Tank divisions just do not want to get very close to these units. A unit on each objective dug in and gone to ground and then a couple units to push to the ore seems like a good way to go maybe?
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
-Napoleon Bonaparte
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Re: Late-War Volksgrenadier List - Opinions welcome.

Postby Dan the German Guy » Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:16 pm

I'm relying greatly on my rocket launchers for the pinning part, since they come with firepower 1+, but they tend to take extra reload time, so timing is going to be critical. Overall, I'm juggling variations of the basic old "Hammer and Anvil" tactics in my mind, using the Schützen, Scouts and PaKs as the (mostly) stationary part and the Sturm and Pioneer platoons, with mortar support, as the hammer. Classical WW1 stormtrooper style. PaKs can stand in for infantry guns and shoot-and-scoot as needed. I probably don't even need to dig in on top of both objectives as long as I can 'screen' one with PaKs (or do I have to in order to claim it?).

Scouts are actually something of an alibi unit - you need to field them in order to get the advantage of the Stosstaktik special rule, but being mere rifle teams, they don't bring much to the game in terms of hitting power. I'm hoping they will be able to snipe an infantry stand or three once in a war, but once their original job of giving the other platoons a boost is done, mostly I think I'll be leaving them to hang around in the back field with the Schützen for mutual support.

Still, I totally agree with you on the tricky bit of getting my infantry forward when at bat against armour. Doing a Pickett isn't in the cards, they just can't soak up the punishment the way Russian strelkovy could. NW42 launchers don't do smoke, but my mortars do, so that's probably a stopgap measure to go the proverbial 'last hundred yards'. At least, with 3 observer teams to the mortar platoon, there'll be enough to go around.

Addition: I just watched the promo video for "NUTS!" on the Flames of War website, VGs vs. Airborne, and the Airborne got rather owned (in part, due to bad luck at dice). Interestingly, the VG player stuck with a more traditional build, two infantry platoons, one Hetzer platoon, one infantry gun platoon, a Jagdtiger and a jet.
Watching that leaves me pondering infantry guns vs. mortars. 4 PaK 50 IGs come cheaper than 6 mortars, they have more AT oomph and longer range on bombardment, but they're slower and don't bring smoke. So, hot or not?
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Re: Late-War Volksgrenadier List - Opinions welcome.

Postby Unorthodoxy » Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:42 pm

You dont need to dig in in order to claim objectives, no.

Great Question. How many shots does the infantry gun get and what's its range? Can it fire mortar shells? I have nothing in front of me or Id answer my own questions.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
-Napoleon Bonaparte
Unorthodoxy
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Re: Late-War Volksgrenadier List - Opinions welcome.

Postby Dan the German Guy » Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:59 pm

Do I have to have troops physically present near the objective, then? Or is it enough to deny the enemy access to it.

IG37 infantry guns have a range of 16"/40cm, ROF2, AT9, FP3+, which changes to 56"/140cm, AT3, FP6 when firing bombardments. They come with Gun Shield and Smoke (but no Smoke Bombardment) for 120 points for a four-gun battery, 1 observer team and Command. They count as Light Guns and can get horse-drawn limbers for +5 points.

PaK50 infantry guns have range 24"/60cm, ROF2, AT10, FP3+, firing bombardments they get range 64"/160cm, AT3, FP6, plus Gun Shield, all for 140 points for 4 guns, 1 observer and Command. They move as Medium Guns, but can get limbers, too

8cm GW43 mortars come with 24"/60cm range, ROF2, AT2, FP3+ and Smoke in direct-fire mode, changing to 40"/100cm, AT2, FP6 and Smoke Bombardment in bombardment mode. They have a minimum range of 8"/20cm, move as man-packed gun teams and cost 180 points for six mortars, 3 observer teams and Command. No organic transport for them, though.

In the end, I think it boils down to what you want to do with your fire support. Infantry guns are better at bringing down hurt on tanks in both modes, but not much better in bombardments. Mortars get more shots, and they can bring down smoke, which can be a life-saver for your infantry. Due to their higher number of shots, they also have a better chance of hurting infantry in the open. And 3 observer teams give them more flexibility when calling in fire.
Interestingly, none of the infantry guns are Bunker Busters, but VolksGren builds can have two batteries of them. Of mortars, only one, and one heavy mortar battery.

Oh, by the way, 12cm sGW43 heavy mortars don't do direct fire, cost 155 points for four tubes, 1 observer, 1 Command, and can get trucks and Kuebels for another 5. They have 56"/140cm range, ROF2, AT3, FP3+. No minimum range. No smoke, either.

Yup, smoke definitely seems to be the defining feature of the medium mortars. Short of artillery, that's the only playing piece that gets you smoke bombardment. The rest is pretty straighforward hurt.
Have I overlooked anything so far?
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